“The More We Learn” Judge
Patricia "Pat" Hastings is approved
for Working, Non-Sporting and Herding Groups plus several
Terrier breeds. Her initial breed was Poodles.
Interview by Barbara J. Andrews
©
TheDogPlace
May 2009
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I was delighted to see Pat at the NC Tarheel cluster. We
quickly warmed to our favorite subject. Not a lot amazes me nowadays but Pat
Hastings has forgotten more about structure and movement than I ever knew.
Better yet, she’s incredibly gifted in being able to quickly convey a complex
subject in word pictures that make sense.
I had hardly arrived home when I received her book
Tricks Of The Trade and the Puppy Puzzle DVD. My library reflects a lifelong passion for books. I’m
pretty picky about who and what I read but I really got into the materials Pat
sent. A
book review followed as naturally as day follows night.
Readers get solid information from the very first page, no flowery prose or superfluous words, Tricks Of
The Trade is all meat and potatoes. A "tell all" book that does!
I was only half way through the Tricks book when I stopped and called Pat to see if she would grant an interview.
Her judging and seminar schedule is always full so we are honored to present this
interview with “the puppy puzzle” lady herself, Mrs. Pat Hastings.
BJA: My first question is, can we get a seminar schedule so people can make
plans to attend? My next question is for those who find travel difficult and may
be on a limited budget, which of your educational tools would be the best to
start with?
HASTINGS: I'll send you a seminar schedule but you can always check the most current
information on my website www.dogfolk.com. Just click on "seminar schedule" on
the home page.
It is very difficult to recommend any individual product as everyone learns in
different ways. The "Puppy Puzzle" DVD is a great tool for visual people that
learn by watching, as it shows all of the steps to evaluating the structural
quality of 8 week old puppies. The "Tricks of the Trade" book has a very good
chapter on the puppy evaluation system with wonderful skeletal drawings to aid
in the understanding of structure. The rest of this book has been described as
"Hints from Heloise" about dogs. It is written in a fashion similar to what we
get from radio and television known as sound bites. It is very easy to read and
understand but it is not for just the beginner. We thought we knew what we were
doing until we started this journey into the litter evaluation and we quickly
learned we knew next to nothing. The "Puppy Development" book describes all of
the mental developmental stages puppies go through and what needs to be done at
what ages to end up with great adult dogs. I really believe that if every
breeder and every buyer read this book, we could cut the dogs in rescue and
shelters tremendously. We are currently working on a new book which will
probably be titled "Structure in Action" which explains how structure impacts
the dog, particularly in performance events.
BJA:
When we talked in Raleigh, you said topline is where movement starts and stops.
I had never thought of it that way but you convinced me in about 2 minutes flat!
Please give our readers a glimpse of what you told me.
HASTINGS: To begin with, let me say that all dogs have faults, but the only way we are
ever going to improve the quality of our dogs, is to learn what faults they have
and what they can lead to, so we can pay attention to them in our breeding
programs.
You can not fix anything if you don't know that needs to be fixed or what it
will take to correct it.
Breeders may try to breed for a correct topline but they need to realize that
the topline is not a heritable piece of the dog. The topline is a symptom of the
structure.
If the topline goes down; if there are any holes, dips, give, softness etc, that
is an indication that something is wrong with the structure of the front
assembly.
If the topline goes up; if you have any type of a roach in a breed that should
not have a rise in its topline or if a dog is high in the rear in a breed that
should not be high, then that indicates there is something wrong with the rear
structure.
Very simple to remember: down = front problem up = rear problem.
BJA:
Do you still find time to do litter evaluations for breeders and if so, how can
that be arranged?
HASTINGS: Oh yes, I still do litter evaluations and continue to learn from every one of
them. I average about 350 litters a year. Just call or email and we'll try to
work you in. There is only time for about half of the requests, so I ask people
to call as soon as the pups are on the ground.
I do the majority of the litters at my home but do fit in numerous ones on the
road. If I come to you, I ask that you not show to me for 6 months.
BJA:
I know you are generally opposed to repeat breedings on the basis that we should
always seek to improve a breed but when a mating is proven to be really
extraordinary, would it not be a service to the breed and to other breeders to
repeat it so as to increase the gene pool for that dominant combination?
HASTINGS: I believe that every breeding should be a forward step. Repeat breedings do
not create progress or improvement, they just create the same. A bitch has such
few litters in her, that repeating wastes one of them. If you have a breeding
that really works, the next time, try something close. A brother, son, nephew or
someone closely related to the dog you liked the results from. Maybe those extra
genes you bring in might produce even better.
Repeat breedings don't give you any options down the road to bring your line
together but by going to a close relative you may have many addition options for
the future.
Of course there are always exceptions such as if you are breeding to get a bitch
and instead end up with a full litter of great males, then maybe I would try
again. But to breed to get more of the same, to me, is foolish.
BJA: There were so many handling gems in your Tricks book I thought about calling
Brinks to protect my treasure. Like not backing up a dog in the ring because
they always back up cow-hocked. The section on baiting was especially
enlightening. What is the worst mistake handlers do with bait?
HASTINGS: Today the biggest mistake with bait is that handlers (professional and
others) use it like food instead of bait. It is not to be fed, it is used to
entice and as a reward. NOT LUNCH.
BJA:
One of our writers was a horse show judge. We ran an article on cavallettis
because very few dog people know how useful they can be and even fewer know how
to set up the spacing for each dog. Care to give us a couple of hints?
HASTINGS: When you use cavallettis with horses they are used above the ground to teach
the horse how to pick its legs up but that is something you never want to teach
a dog. With a dog, you always want to use them on the ground.
You measure the dog at its withers and lay the cavalletties ( I prefer using
pieces of white PCV pipe) on the ground, the same distance apart as the dog is
tall. This is a dog’s most comfortable stride so if you want to increase his
stride you slowly move them further apart to make the dog use and condition
those muscles necessary for reach & drive.
BJA:
Chlorophyll and vanilla are tips every exhibitor or stud dog owner can use. What
similar tip first comes to mind to save dog and owner frustration?
HASTINGS: There is a product that was not available (as far as I know) when we were
handling and breeding that is absolutely a magic solution for all males when
bitches are in season.
It is made by a company called Natures Odor and Germ Control (NOGC) and it has
the fancy name of "Pet Powder". It is a very fine powder such as corn starch
that you sprinkle on the rear of a bitch. You can have a kennel or motorhome
full of stud dogs and when you use this on any bitch in season, not one of the
dogs will ever notice. You have to reapply it each time after she urinates and
the male must not be allowed to be close enough to actually touch the bitch.
I am such a believer in this product that I have it available on my website.
BJA:
As a judge, what is the first thing you look at when your class has assembled?
HASTINGS: The proper silhouette is critical to me. Length to height and length of leg
to depth of body is such a critical part of breed type. If you can not identify
the breed solely by its silhouette it is lacking in type.
Following that, I draw the 3 imaginary lines that create Mother Natures natural
balance points. This of course is always in line with their standard.
BJA:
Would you like to have a go at the oldest question in dogs – type vs. soundness
– and which is more important in the show ring?
HASTINGS: A breed standard is a blue print which allows the dog to do the job for which
it was bred so you can not separate type and soundness because if the dog is not
structurally sound enough to do the job it was bred for, then it totally lacks
type.
BJA:
What is the most annoying thing an exhibitor can do in your Breed ring?
HASTINGS: Not to be kind and fair to their dog. Heavy handed handlers absolutely turn
me off.
BJA:
What is the smartest thing an exhibitor can do in your Group ring?
HASTINGS: Great question and one I have never thought of. I really don't think the
exhibitor could do anything to influence the outcome of a group. But not staying
on your toes could cost you in the end. All dogs have exactly the same amount of
time and attention in my ring so if you let me see the dog not at its best, it
might end up costing you a placement.
BJA:
What was your very first purebred and what would you own now if you could only
have one dog?
HASTINGS: My first purebred dog was a white Toy Poodle. I currently own just one and it
is a Doberman bitch who is my best buddy.
BJA:
Please tell our readers what is uppermost in your mind at moment or at this time
in the history of the sport.
HASTINGS: Of course it has to be all of the anti-dog legislation and the power of PETA.
We ALL have to band together and quit thinking it is never going to happen to MY
breed. Sticking our head in the sand is never going to solve anything.
My good friend Bob VanDiver, just came up with a fabulous simple idea that could
help immensely if we all did this starting today. "AR" should not be referred to
as Animal Rights but as Animal Radicals. If this became a normal phrase and the
national press picked it up, maybe the public would learn and realize on their
own that these people are not about animal welfare. If the public was behind us
I think we could easily win the battle.
BJA:
Pat, what is the one best piece of advice you can give to a breeder?
HASTINGS: Breed to your standard. We should not feel these dogs are ours to change as
we choose but to take care of them and pass them onto the next generation in as
good of or better shape than when we received them.
Always remember, "The more we learn, the more our dogs benefit."
Interview by Barbara J. Andrews
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